00:00:00: Um, right.

00:00:02: You're leading this time, like, every dance we've ever done together.

00:00:05: No, no, you can't do that.

00:00:07: Why not?

00:00:08: Because it would reflect really badly on me.

00:00:15: Look at you on the spot.

00:00:17: No, seriously, you should.

00:00:18: Because you had some great ideas for this week's podcast episode.

00:00:22: Instalment, as I used to call them.

00:00:24: Now know they're not called instalments. I know.

00:00:26: Whenever Katie flagged me,

00:00:29: it's not a fucking instalment.

00:00:30: It's an episode.

00:00:31: Oh, yeah, it's episode. Episode.

00:00:33: Let me just go onto the website.

00:00:35: www. Yeah.

00:00:37: Digital dinosaur hard at work.

00:00:40: Yeah, well, I don't know what we call these episodes.

00:00:43: Right, okay, so you had some great ideas for this episode this week.

00:00:46: What are we talking about this week?

00:00:47: Well, thank you, first of all, for sending us in loads of questions.

00:00:53: Yes, thank you.

00:00:55: Because really, that's most appreciated.

00:00:57: Because it makes all the difference, doesn't it?

00:00:59: Knowing that

00:01:01: there's people actually listening to this.

00:01:03: It's kind of a relief.

00:01:04: It's a relief, I'm not going to lie.

00:01:07: But also that they really like what we're doing and we have their buy in.

00:01:13: So something that's really hard to get, that's like the most impossible currency

00:01:18: because it's the only way, like getting people's buy-in and getting

00:01:23: them to engage and submit questions, which leads me to this.

00:01:28: And before we continue, can I just say,

00:01:30: the feedback that I've been given personally or I've heard through you or

00:01:35: we've read, thank you so much to those who've.

00:01:37: Because this is our very brand new baby,

00:01:41: and this is the first podcast I've ever done.

00:01:43: And so the fact that it resonates

00:01:45: with the people who are listening and watching and the things you've said,

00:01:49: the really kind things you've said, it means the world to me.

00:01:51: It really did. It's really put a smile on my face

00:01:53: because, well, because there is a certain vulnerability to it.

00:01:58: Because I believe what we talk about really matters.

00:02:01: And there's so much more to come in terms

00:02:03: of topics that I really hope make people sit up and go, wow, brilliant.

00:02:07: Yeah, we need to be talking about this.

00:02:08: So thank you.

00:02:09: With the feedback we're getting, we'll keep going as we are.

00:02:11: So, anyway, yes, so I've had a lovely lady called Christine who I rate really highly.

00:02:17: She's a lovely, lovely person.

00:02:19: And she said, I normally don't do podcasts at all, full stop, but I love yours.

00:02:23: And you're coming nordic walking with me.

00:02:25: Nordic walking.

00:02:28: My work here is done.

00:02:29: We've converted somebody.

00:02:32: No, but honestly.

00:02:33: This episode today is dedicated to the art of selling yourself.

00:02:40: So, self-marketing,

00:02:44: how you manage to get people's buy-in, which is a massive one,

00:02:48: and how you present yourself, how you show up in the digital sphere,

00:02:53: but also in the real world where it really matters.

00:02:57: And yeah, if we have any practical steps, I suppose, that have helped us along

00:03:04: the way, I'd want you to just maybe give me a few pointers.

00:03:12: What you've learned over the years and what hasn't worked maybe as well in

00:03:18: terms of selling yourself and getting your story out there and creating your personal

00:03:23: brand in whatever context that is, whether it's a new job application or

00:03:28: starting a podcast, for example, that sort of

00:03:31: well, something.

00:03:32: I've got something I'd like to share with you that actually just happened.

00:03:35: In fact, it's in the process of happening.

00:03:36: I'm not going to mention any names, but long story short,

00:03:40: as part of Haus Of Words and what we are offering as branding experts,

00:03:45: be it for in a company setting, in a company environment,

00:03:48: when a company is trying to get its story out there, or a personal branding setting,

00:03:52: say somebody is trying to establish their presence in the digital world or

00:03:58: they're applying for a job and they've got to get their story out there.

00:04:00: Something crazy happened to me yesterday

00:04:02: and like I said, it's still ongoing, where somebody tapped me up and was very,

00:04:07: very complimentary, very flattering and very nice to talk to.

00:04:11: Impressive set of accolades that they brought with them.

00:04:15: They came to me and said, wow,

00:04:17: I really loved what you talked about in your post, recent on LinkedIn about

00:04:22: getting your CV for an international job application environment,

00:04:27: getting it just right and what you should and shouldn't do and would you mind taking

00:04:32: a look at mine and then maybe we can discuss further steps?

00:04:35: I was like, yeah, sure, send it over.

00:04:37: So this person sent it over and it was a standard CV.

00:04:43: It was riddled with, I'm going to be honest,

00:04:48: it was riddled with mistakes that would mean it would just get chucked in the bin.

00:04:51: It's not going to get looked at,

00:04:52: but for reasons I won't go into now, but I started reading it and it was just

00:04:57: a one-pager, but the first four subheadings

00:05:00: and the content in there was so generic that I thought it looks like AI.

00:05:06: And so I copied

00:05:09: the text from these four subsegments without any personal details, of course.

00:05:14: Ran it through an AI detector or two AI detectors and it instantly flagged 99%

00:05:20: certain this is surprise, 100% matched that this is AI generated content.

00:05:26: And I head in hand, I thought, what's this person doing?

00:05:29: They're clearly successful, they have an amazing followership,

00:05:34: and like I said, when you speak to them, personable and easy to engage with.

00:05:39: So why the hell would you go and use

00:05:41: ChatGPT or whatever it is you're using to create this content?

00:05:46: So that's what's pending at the moment.

00:05:48: And I don't know if this person is listening to this podcast, probably not.

00:05:51: So I'm just going to run the risk and share this information.

00:05:54: If they are, they'll know who I'm talking about.

00:05:57: But I would say, rule number one:

00:05:59: Don't use AI to get your personal story out there.

00:06:03: It is an incredibly tempting proposition when you can go, well,

00:06:07: I can get this piece of text in perfect English out there about me, but

00:06:14: to a trained eye, you will see it straight away.

00:06:18: We're linguists, I'm still a translator, and I've been translating a long time.

00:06:22: You'll see it and you go, that's AI.

00:06:25: Don't use AI, a generic tool to tell a very personal story.

00:06:30: 100%, that would be, that's the number one off the top of my head.

00:06:33: I'm only sharing this because this has literally just happened to me.

00:06:35: What about you? What would you say?

00:06:37: I'd say number two is think about the long game rather than counting your followers.

00:06:45: All those ‘vanity metrics’, right? Yeah, of course

00:06:48: it's nice to hit a milestone.

00:06:50: Like, I'm not going to lie,

00:06:51: when I hit 5000 followers on LinkedIn, it was awesome.

00:06:55: And now what's next?

00:06:59: So it's great to have milestones.

00:07:00: But don't get too

00:07:03: obsessed because obviously the danger is that you only ever look at those metrics.

00:07:09: How many likes, how many, I don't know, clicks views,

00:07:13: the engagement rate, and all those wonderful KPIs that serve one purpose.

00:07:19: But don't get too obsessed because you're missing the point.

00:07:23: Yes, the point would always for me be in the long game.

00:07:27: So getting your story out, first of all, getting your story right for you.

00:07:32: So getting it straight for you,

00:07:33: so you know 100% who you are, what you represent, what your values are,

00:07:41: what your narrative needs to be, to then put it out there.

00:07:45: Exactly.

00:07:45: And in terms of, to build on that, in terms of shaping the narrative

00:07:49: and creating a story, I'm not talking war and peace.

00:07:52: Your story can be beautifully packaged into one sentence.

00:07:57: And I'll give you an example. So I know of a situation many,

00:08:02: many years ago in a recruitment company here in the UK where they received a CV.

00:08:06: This is no joke, this is going back a long

00:08:07: time, but they received a CV and just a brief introductory cover letter to go

00:08:12: with it, because this particular candidate, sort of,

00:08:15: I think a mid-level executive manager, was looking for a new role

00:08:18: and so he submitted his details and it started,

00:08:23: name, so and so, marital status, married, two kids, massive mortgage.

00:08:30: And the person in question who was responsible for getting the CV out there

00:08:36: and getting this guy in for interviews, he laughed his head off.

00:08:40: He thought it was brilliant.

00:08:40: It told such a great story in such a succinct way.

00:08:43: Because if you're a recruiter and you've got somebody who comes and says, hey, man,

00:08:47: I'm in debt up to my eyeballs, I'm going to bust my ass every single day.

00:08:51: I will be there on time, I won't be sick, I'm not going to take the piss.

00:08:55: I'm going to work really, really hard for you.

00:08:57: What a story, right there.

00:08:59: Married with massive mortgage.

00:09:03: Of course you're going to pay your mortgage.

00:09:04: Who doesn't pay their mortgage?

00:09:05: Of course you're going to pay your mortgage.

00:09:07: You're going to work yourself to the bones.

00:09:08: So that is a great example of getting a story out there in two words.

00:09:13: And it is possible.

00:09:14: So that's what I'd invite people to think about.

00:09:16: Take something that is deeply personal to you, or rather not.

00:09:20: Sorry, not necessarily personal.

00:09:21: Deeply important to you,

00:09:23: keeping a roof over your family's head and descriptive in

00:09:27: terms of your character.

00:09:28: Yes, exactly.

00:09:29: Like your essence.

00:09:30: Exactly.

00:09:32: I'm sorry, but I don't know what the day to day life of an internal recruiter is at

00:09:39: a mid market company, an SME in Germany, for example, or even a larger corporation.

00:09:43: But I can only imagine that 95% of it goes something like this.

00:09:47: You get a CV coming and you just go, nah, nah.

00:09:51: Or even it's pre-filtered using software, of course.

00:09:54: And so if you can just capture someone's attention with something as granular as

00:10:00: that, you've already got half a foot in the door.

00:10:03: Yeah, make them smile,

00:10:05: make them sit up straight in their chairs, like, oh, that's unusual.

00:10:10: That's new.

00:10:11: So that's off the top of my head.

00:10:13: Those are the two things I've got to offer my two cent, so to speak.

00:10:16: On that tangent, I know of somebody who once sent a single shoe to a recruiter.

00:10:25: A single shoe, just with a letter.

00:10:27: Like, now I've got a foot and now I've got a shoe in the door.

00:10:32: Brilliant. Did it work?

00:10:33: Yeah, it worked. Brilliant.

00:10:35: It was just genius.

00:10:38: I think it was a beautiful red stiletto.

00:10:41: Now I'm in your door.

00:10:42: Now I've got a foot in your door. Magnificent.

00:10:45: Please may the rest follow. That's brilliant.

00:10:48: But, yeah, so that's what we do.

00:10:50: So you're right, it's not war and peace. It's not.

00:10:52: When we say storytelling, people always go, who has time for story?

00:10:55: Like, once upon a time?

00:10:57: Hope you're sitting comfortable.

00:10:58: It's not about that.

00:11:00: It's about once you are completely certain

00:11:06: in terms of who you are, what you want to put out there

00:11:09: in the world, what you want people to see and think of when they hear your name.

00:11:14: Then it becomes so easy to distil that in two, three, four words,

00:11:18: like in one little sentence, when people go, so what do you do?

00:11:22: Well, have you ever wondered how we get the windows in the top floor clean?

00:11:28: Well, that's what I do.

00:11:29: Or, like, take people with you on a short little journey.

00:11:34: Yes.

00:11:36: Give them context that's so tangible that they go, oh, yeah, of course.

00:11:40: And it doesn't have to be long winded.

00:11:43: In fact, it shouldn't be long winded.

00:11:45: It should be as concise as possible, but packed with so much energy

00:11:53: that it really represents, like a nerve ending.

00:11:55: Let's say.

00:11:55: If you touch it, it's like, oh, that's how essential it has to be to you.

00:12:00: Yes. And it's possible to do it.

00:12:03: So we've covered two more things.

00:12:05: How to sell yourself: Humour.

00:12:07: I'm such a big fan of humour, and I know you are, too.

00:12:10: And I know it's because we're so British

00:12:13: in the sense that we live and breathe this culture.

00:12:16: So people massively understate.

00:12:20: They want to make each other feel great.

00:12:23: Absolutely.

00:12:25: And they employ, in many cases, myself included,

00:12:29: you'll be faced with a situation and you will say something that's so cutting,

00:12:32: but in a deadpan kind of way, that it creates a lasting memory.

00:12:36: And I would say again, I don't want to group 80 million people

00:12:41: all together in one country, but jammers use a bit of humour.

00:12:45: Lighten up.

00:12:46: Don't be afraid to do this, because it's gone.

00:12:49: I know what you want to say.

00:12:49: Let's park this one, because there's so much I'm going to say.

00:12:53: But the other point we touched on was: Give people context.

00:12:58: Context they can understand.

00:13:00: So they arrive at this ’Aha!’

00:13:02: light bulb moment instantly.

00:13:05: Give them the chance that they

00:13:08: understand what you do right there and right now.

00:13:14: Don't make it too complicated for them.

00:13:16: In fact, break it down so a ten-yea- old can understand.

00:13:19: So you sell by using humour,

00:13:22: by making people smile, but also by giving so much context that it's

00:13:27: crystal clear to them what you can do for them.

00:13:29: So always what's in it for them and make that really clear.

00:13:35: And that also goes for your story, of course.

00:13:41: Put yourself in your reader's shoes,

00:13:42: be it for your slogan, for your website, always address the one reader.

00:13:47: And then circling back now to the importance of humour when selling.

00:13:53: I mean, you always say about your father, he could charm the birds off

00:13:57: any tree and he's charmed several birds off the trees.

00:14:00: That much is certain.

00:14:02: That's one thing I really love about this

00:14:05: culture and what's so fundamentally different

00:14:07: which leads us to a wonderful new episode,

00:14:11: I'm sure, about the subtle differences between our nations,

00:14:14: but the art form of not taking yourself too seriously and to really just

00:14:22: take it down a notch or two, like, dial it back a little bit.

00:14:26: This whole chest banging sort of ‘alpha male’.

00:14:31: We've known some awesome people with a staff of tens of thousands of people.

00:14:38: That was really poetic.

00:14:40: We've known great CEOs, great leaders,

00:14:43: great visionaries with massive responsibilities, and they're just

00:14:48: Andrew or Matthew or, you know, even though they might have a PhD

00:14:52: in something, they're just normal people like you and I.

00:14:56: And they always dial it back and they always understate.

00:15:01: And I really love that.

00:15:03: And I celebrate that about British culture

00:15:05: and I try and infuse it whenever I write a text for myself, for my clients,

00:15:11: and I encourage them greatly to just make it light-hearted.

00:15:17: Yes.

00:15:18: Because life‘s so serious - tends to be so serious - and can be really serious.

00:15:22: Yes. So, yeah, humour when selling beautiful,

00:15:26: massively important context, understanding yourself first and foremost.

00:15:31: Because if you have this clarity, then you have the words.

00:15:37: Yes.

00:15:37: So people who don't know what to say, they lack that clarity about themselves.

00:15:41: And then when they end up in a sales role

00:15:44: or they apply for a job or they're business owners and they have to pitch

00:15:48: to strangers, they're a bit shy and a bit introverted

00:15:52: and they don't know what to say and what will other people think?

00:15:56: But that's why I always say,

00:15:58: start with your own narrative and shaping it and deciding for yourself which bits

00:16:04: you'd like to put in a digital shop window.

00:16:08: Brilliant. For other people to see and remember.

00:16:10: That's really well put. I love that.

00:16:13: That's a lot of content right there.

00:16:14: I would say, good stuff. People can…

00:16:16: I'm conscious of the fact that I was

00:16:17: banging on too much last week and we've got to keep it succinct this week.

00:16:21: No, I hope that answered your question.

00:16:23: Yes, and thank you so much for asking us that.

00:16:27: That was Christine, wasn't it?

00:16:29: No, this was somebody else. This was Jenny.

00:16:31: But keep them coming.

00:16:33: Right, sorry, I should have been paying attention to that.

00:16:36: It's fine. It's fine.

00:16:37: We've had so many messages, but really good

00:16:40: good one.

00:16:40: And we're going to continue by answering another question.

00:16:43: Amazing. Yeah.

00:16:44: All right. But I love doing this.

00:16:45: This is really good fun. Thank you.

00:16:47: It's starting to feel like all natural. Natural.

00:16:50: It isn't it. See you next week.

00:16:52: See you next week.