00:00:01: Bits we find really annoying or irritating or different.

00:00:06: That was one of the most popular questions on Instagram last week.

00:00:10: How long have you got?

00:00:13: Cancel the 03:00!

00:00:14: I was going to say, yeah, we're in for the long haul now.

00:00:17: Because I can talk. Yeah.

00:00:20: If there's anything you'd like to get

00:00:21: off your chest there, lead me in what particular respect?

00:00:26: Okay, so we both spend a lot of time in each other's respective nations.

00:00:35: Is there anything you find irritating or downright annoying about the Germans?

00:00:40: Wow. Oh, wow.

00:00:41: We're really going, right?

00:00:43: Wow.

00:00:44: The people want to know we owe them the truth.

00:00:47: No foreplay!

00:00:50: Who am I but a vessel of honesty.

00:00:52: Okay, happy to share.

00:00:55: And what I don't want to do is anybody

00:00:58: to listen to this or watch this and then, I don't know, go home and have a cry or

00:01:03: decide they're never going to work with me ever again or even come and hunt me down,

00:01:07: because that level of honesty always brings a certain amount of danger with it.

00:01:13: So things that annoy me professionally or personally or both.

00:01:17: About Germany in general, about dealing…

00:01:21: I guess let's keep it business and let's

00:01:23: keep it in a business context because this is really cool stuff.

00:01:27: Because we know a few UK companies that are dealing with German clients,

00:01:32: partners. Yeah.

00:01:33: One in particular, and vice versa.

00:01:35: And there's always this friction. Yes.

00:01:37: And whenever they tell us about their

00:01:39: latest frustration, we're always, but this is really simple.

00:01:42: But actually the Germans are not that way.

00:01:44: But they're perceived this way.

00:01:46: But what they actually meant was this.

00:01:48: And they go.

00:01:50: And the other way around.

00:01:51: Well, I can think of some good examples

00:01:54: right off the bat that shouldn't cause too much offence, but are actually genuine.

00:02:01: The observation is a genuine attempt

00:02:02: to help things improve, be it a business relationship.

00:02:07: This is not like bashing ’ze Germans’.

00:02:12: I love living here. I love it.

00:02:14: And Germany, I think they're both fantastic nations.

00:02:17: Germany.

00:02:18: It's not without good reason that I started learning German at eleven.

00:02:22: It's the subject I really excelled at in school and then my A levels and then

00:02:28: I studied in Germany and then I lived there.

00:02:31: Married one.

00:02:32: Married one.

00:02:32: My children have dual citizenship. Yeah, I know.

00:02:34: The list goes on and on.

00:02:36: I love Germany.

00:02:38: I choose not to live there anymore.

00:02:40: And we have our own reasons for that.

00:02:42: Probably cover that another time in terms of a business setting.

00:02:44: Things that annoy me.

00:02:48: Okay, I'll start with the biggest one first.

00:02:50: I believe that Germany is a phenomenal

00:02:55: country in many, many respects, especially in business,

00:03:00: but it will never truly reach its full potential as a nation.

00:03:05: And there are some key reasons for that in a professional context.

00:03:11: I don't know of any other country in the world

00:03:15: where the average employee is so determined to negate any kind

00:03:22: of responsibility, liability for any action, and that an employee will

00:03:30: not go one step above and beyond what is written down in,

00:03:36: say, a job description or what they have contractually agreed with their employer

00:03:40: for fear of something going wrong and them getting the stick for it.

00:03:45: So if to anybody listening to this

00:03:47: who looks at the English, and maybe they watch the English on RTL,

00:03:52: and there's like some special report about some total idiots on Bournemouth beach or

00:03:57: something during the pandemic, which was something that got covered a lot.

00:04:00: That's a bit of a digression,

00:04:01: but looking at consuming material that paints the English in a certain way,

00:04:06: and you think, well, why would they be like that in a professional setting?

00:04:11: The English, as my experience tells me,

00:04:16: are far more willing to have a go at something to see if it works.

00:04:20: Now, this all sounds generic and it's not terribly specific, but

00:04:28: in my country, people are far more risk on, even in an employment relationship,

00:04:34: and are prepared to say, I don't know, have a go at improving a process.

00:04:37: And if it saves, say, 15 minutes week in, week out, that's a massive time saving.

00:04:42: Or say, for example, going slightly off what the protocol

00:04:46: dictates and getting a better result, they will have a go.

00:04:49: People in British or English professionals, British professionals are

00:04:54: simply more willing to take a risk to achieve the result.

00:04:59: And a German professional,

00:05:01: particularly as an employee, will do anything to negate responsibility.

00:05:06: I'll give you a specific example.

00:05:07: So as a translator, I'll work with a project manager

00:05:10: in a translation house, for example, or with a direct customer.

00:05:12: If it's a project manager in a translation house, they'll send me a package,

00:05:16: I'll translate it, send it back the correction loop, and it'll come back.

00:05:20: And there are, say, 8000 word documents, there might be three corrections, okay?

00:05:24: And they'll send it back to me and say, oh, can you just confirm this?

00:05:29: And it'll be obvious, like really, really silly stuff.

00:05:33: And the way you've just sort of missed it

00:05:35: because, well, because for whatever reason.

00:05:37: And I'll say, oh, just fill it and say, oh, no, we can't do that.

00:05:40: It's got to go back to you.

00:05:41: You've got to verify it and then send it back to us.

00:05:44: And I'll say, Why?

00:05:45: Well, because it's not our responsibility.

00:05:47: And that is a really long winded way of saying, that that process might add

00:05:54: on 20 minutes worth of work because they've got to make the changes and then

00:06:00: save it as a document that is to be confirmed.

00:06:04: Send that to me. Hope that I see the email in time.

00:06:07: So all the time this job that could have been finished half an hour ago,

00:06:10: an hour ago is sat there pending because somebody won't step up and go, oh,

00:06:14: it's obviously trying to think of a really good example.

00:06:18: That should obviously be a capital letter.

00:06:21: I know that from my school, English or whatever, that should be a capital letter.

00:06:24: I'll just change it. I'll just do that.

00:06:25: A German will not do that, but an English professional would.

00:06:30: And so ultimately, I believe,

00:06:32: I've come to believe that in a professional setting,

00:06:35: German companies of all shapes and sizes, they lose tens of thousands of hours every

00:06:41: year in work, jobs, projects, assignments, whatever.

00:06:45: That could have been completed much

00:06:47: sooner, but they won't because the rules say no, you must do it this way.

00:06:51: “Dienst nach Vorschrift”.

00:06:53: And so in my professional experience,

00:06:55: that is a real bugbear of mine because I'm like, it's just obvious, just change it.

00:06:59: And even if you make a mistake

00:07:01: and the client comes back and is unhappy, so what, did we die?

00:07:05: No. So that would be my biggest bugbear.

00:07:07: And I don't want to make this.

00:07:08: I don't want to put a negative spin on this because I really do love working.

00:07:11: It is interesting in terms of cultural mindsets, I suppose,

00:07:16: like the subtle differences because, well, geographically speaking, we are so close.

00:07:21: Yes, and both part of the western world and all that.

00:07:24: And you'd assume we're fairly similar if you zoom out a bit.

00:07:29: We're so close together, we're small nations.

00:07:31: Yes, we are, however, and I love those little bits.

00:07:36: I mean, I've loved them at uni when I

00:07:38: studied English literature and culture and I've always

00:07:41: every thesis, every master's.

00:07:44: Well, my master's thesis as well was

00:07:46: on subtle cultural differences, like where you think you're right but you're not.

00:07:51: Flat out wrong.

00:07:51: And it's always been such a hobby or interest of mine just to…

00:07:57: yeah, it is fascinating and to be honest, just to offer an addition to what I was

00:08:02: saying in a private setting, talking about abdicating all

00:08:06: responsibility or liability in a private setting.

00:08:09: The same applies to me. It's the same bugbear.

00:08:12: It's the concept of taking responsibility

00:08:15: for a situation or doing anything in your power not to.

00:08:18: And that is characterised.

00:08:19: And I think this is something most people don't know about.

00:08:22: So this is the point.

00:08:23: If you have been like, I don't know, dicking around on your insta feed or

00:08:28: whatever, or you've been making a cup of coffee, now's the time to focus because

00:08:31: this is really important, because this is a major, major difference.

00:08:33: Forget everything else I said just now, but this is a big difference.

00:08:36: The concept of a ‘Haftpflichtversicherung’, personal indemnity,

00:08:42: personal liability insurance, that is mandatory by law as an adult, isn't it?

00:08:47: In Germany? If you live in Germany, I think so.

00:08:49: If you live and work in Germany, you must have a ‘private Haftpflichtversicherung’.

00:08:52: You've got to lean into it. Okay?

00:08:54: Personal indemnity insurance doesn't exist here in the UK.

00:08:59: There is no such thing as private personal indemnity insurance.

00:09:03: Hang on. So what happens if you invite me

00:09:05: and you've got a lovely new white rug and I spill my glass of red wine?

00:09:10: Exactly. Oh, my word.

00:09:12: This is brilliant.

00:09:13: Because this is really valuable because I've…

00:09:14: The key question for any German, like, what if I spill my red wine?

00:09:17: What if I spill my red wine?

00:09:19: So we've had this conversation.

00:09:20: Yeah, we've had this conversation on many different occasions.

00:09:23: And whether it was red wine on the carpet or dropping somebody's vase in the home,

00:09:28: how the f*ck are you going to drop a vase in somebody's home?

00:09:30: But whatever it is, you're helping friends

00:09:33: move their stuff around and you actually scrape or dent.

00:09:36: And I've been asked this question so many times and my response is always the same,

00:09:41: I'd say, well, assuming you're friends and it's damaged in the home,

00:09:45: something gets that badly damaged and is that expensive, your home contents policy

00:09:49: will cover it because that's why we have home contents insurance.

00:09:53: So if something valuable breaks, wow, you just get it replaced.

00:09:57: What I always add to that is that if your friends are the…

00:10:01: and I really mean this, everybody listening in,

00:10:03: if your friends are the kind of people that if you go round to their house, flat,

00:10:10: whatever, in the evening for a meal, and you spill red wine on their carpet

00:10:14: and they say to you, well, you're going to have to pay for that,

00:10:17: better get yourself some new f*cking friends because those are sh*tty friends.

00:10:21: Those are sh*tty f*cking friends.

00:10:23: And there's no two ways about it.

00:10:25: If somebody came around to my house

00:10:27: and they saw our house and they spilt wine on the floor, I'd be like, it's no biggie.

00:10:31: It's no biggie. Who cares?

00:10:33: And if you can't get it removed

00:10:35: well, we'll find a way, but I'm not going to build my friends.

00:10:39: What the f*ck?

00:10:41: I don't know if anybody listening to this will go,

00:10:45: “Das ist doch wahnsinnig!”

00:10:49: That's absolutely crazy for me! It's not crazy.

00:10:51: It's the fact that we're talking about

00:10:53: wine on a rug or on a carpet, versus, say, a ten-year friendship with somebody

00:10:57: that you've had who was maybe there when your mother died, or when your children

00:11:02: were born, or when you were absolutely bankrupt, or whatever happened,

00:11:07: you were in hospital and you had a problem, they were there.

00:11:08: Who gives a sh*t about wine on the carpet? Doesn't matter.

00:11:11: So that is another bugbear.

00:11:13: And it all comes back to liability.

00:11:15: I think it all is indicative of,

00:11:20: for me, the only real problem that exists in Germany today.

00:11:23: I think there are a few people who would

00:11:25: say there are lots of problems, like, in any country, but for me,

00:11:28: in Germany in particular, and I have no experience of living

00:11:31: in Austria or in Switzerland, so I can't say for the wider DACH region,

00:11:36: but I would say in Germany, there is a distinct lack of social cohesion.

00:11:42: ‘Das gesellschaftliche Miteinander’.

00:11:44: It just doesn't exist.

00:11:45: In the UK

00:11:45: we often get laughed at because we're

00:11:46: always saying ‘sorry’, and we go through the strokes, as it were,

00:11:51: of asking the same old questions and often talking about the weather,

00:11:53: but it's essentially establishing a dynamic that says, I mean you no harm.

00:11:58: it's a social glue.

00:12:00: That's right.

00:12:00: And this social glue does not exist in Germany.

00:12:03: And I've lived long enough in Germany.

00:12:06: I've worked long enough with German

00:12:08: companies and German people to know that that is true.

00:12:13: There is. The sense of social cohesion like,

00:12:15: we're not allowed to run each other over, okay?

00:12:17: We can't just go around murdering each other.

00:12:19: Okay, there's social glue. Right.

00:12:21: But there is no cohesion like there is here.

00:12:25: And I find it a real shame because I have many German friends.

00:12:28: I love Germany.

00:12:30: It's a great, great country.

00:12:32: But

00:12:34: there is this just flat out determination to negate all

00:12:39: responsibility and liability in your private and professional life.

00:12:44: And that's where the Brits don't

00:12:47: understand the Germans, and the Germans definitely don't understand the Brits.

00:12:51: There you go. Long story.

00:12:52: And I don't want to overrun, but it's something that's close

00:12:54: to my heart because it still bugs me in my day to day.

00:12:58: Of course. Because you work with Germans every day.

00:13:02: That's right, yeah.

00:13:03: And so, yeah, that's what I'd have. What would you add to that?

00:13:06: Is there anything you'd like to add in particular?

00:13:08: I'd say I live here for a reason, because I love it so much, I guess.

00:13:16: Something I would definitely explain to my younger self when I moved here.

00:13:20: And, I mean, bearing in mind you were British.

00:13:24: Still am.

00:13:25: So I had a bit of a head-start, I suppose.

00:13:27: I studied English culture and literature, so I wasn't completely foreign.

00:13:34: And yet there were so many subtle nuances I didn't get for many years.

00:13:40: Like, I was always way too direct

00:13:43: and alienating a few, well, former friends,

00:13:46: because I just said it as I felt it, and I couldn't see anything wrong with that.

00:13:53: Now, looking back, I go, oh, sweet Katie.

00:13:58: Yes, I suppose what can be quite exhausting and quite draining

00:14:02: and confusing when you're new to British culture and when you're dealing with Brits

00:14:07: is the very indirect ways of saying things.

00:14:12: So the word ’No’, for example,

00:14:15: which is basically nonexistent here in this country.

00:14:19: I mean, we have it on paper.

00:14:21: You can translate ’Nein’ into ’No’.

00:14:24: It's one of the things you say really quickly and then run away.

00:14:27: You don't say no, though. No, you don't.

00:14:30: Because you don't want to have the conversation that comes thereafter.

00:14:32: Interesting.

00:14:33: Yeah, definitely some point we'll see where we get to or down the line

00:14:38: and to a German ear where we're so quick to say, unfortunately, sadly, no,

00:14:45: regrettably. Regrettably.

00:14:48: Those words lead every email.

00:14:52: We're so trained, like our ‘No muscle’ is so

00:14:56: strong that when we move here or when we're dealing with Brits and there's never

00:15:00: a no, we go, well, they really loved everything I said.

00:15:06: And to a Brit, everything was very interesting.

00:15:08: Which means it's dog sh*t. Yeah.

00:15:10: Classic example is starting an email with ‘leider’

00:15:15: Sehr geehrter Herr Caiger, leider…

00:15:16: Dear Mr. Caiger,

00:15:17: unfortunately….

00:15:18: And you go, and this is where I notice

00:15:20: I've been so Britified over the last

00:15:24: 12, 13 years now.

00:15:25: Because when dealing with Germans

00:15:28: and I've trained my clients,

00:15:30: I'd like to think in a way that they don't

00:15:32: do that anymore, but it almost is like a smack in the face whenever

00:15:37: you get an email and you go

00:15:40: Hi Katie, unfortunately, or

00:15:43: Hi, Katie, could you…

00:15:44: no, no. But we've known each other.

00:15:47: There's rapport there.

00:15:49: We're not complete strangers.

00:15:51: And even so, I'd always lead with, I hope you're well today.

00:15:55: Exactly. How's your day going?

00:15:58: It's sunny over here.

00:16:00: How is it where you are?

00:16:01: And unless the sh*t has hit the fan, so to speak.

00:16:06: Often,

00:16:07: thankfully, whenever I get an email

00:16:09: that starts with ’leider’, it's ‘leider konnte ich

00:16:11: Sie nicht telefonisch erreichen’.

00:16:12: Yeah, ’unfortunately, I haven't been able to read you by phone’.

00:16:16: You always feel like you're in debt.

00:16:19: You always feel like you owe them and you're not delivering.

00:16:23: Yes.

00:16:24: Which takes me on to another thing which I wanted to mention.

00:16:25: We'll have to save it for another time.

00:16:27: Let's save it for another time.

00:16:29: But yes, because this is so cool, because,

00:16:33: well, we're getting to reflect life on things we've possibly never talked

00:16:38: about or haven't talked about for a long time.

00:16:40: I want to, yes, thank you for everything

00:16:43: you've mentioned. Mental note.

00:16:45: And I think we should talk about it sooner rather than later,

00:16:47: perhaps even extend this particular episode to follow into the next or another

00:16:53: one after, because all of a sudden my brain has racked up many other examples.

00:16:57: Let's chop this one in half.

00:16:58: Yeah, continue.

00:17:00: We'll hear and see you next week.

00:17:02: Yes, that's a good shout.

00:17:04: We're going to keep babbling on, because that's what we do best.

00:17:06: That's what we do in it.

00:17:10: See you next time. See you next time.

00:17:13: Bye.